Billy Keels  00:00

Today's conversation is sponsored by first generation Capital Partners. If you're an accredited investor and you want to know about how we're helping other accredited investors keep more of their income, go to firstgencp.com forward slash going long.

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00:12

I've seen the evolution of technology in my career from start to finish in the process of acquisition of a property of managing a property become such a tremendous tool that it really literally does not matter where a property is, in order to successfully own it.

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00:31

You're listening to the going long podcast with Billy keels, the number one podcast for long distance real asset investing.

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Billy Keels  00:41

Welcome to the go along podcast, we're back once again to continue to help to educate you so you feel much more comfortable as well as confident investing beyond your backyard. And yes, I'm your host, Billy keels, and I am really excited to welcome you back to today's conversation. Because this one is another one of these that's just absolutely awesome. Talk about being able to gain from someone's three decades of experience like today's the conversation is gonna be really, really awesome. Also, I could not even go further without saying thank you so much. You continue to share the episode you continue to we see the numbers continuing to go up on the podcast. Thank you, for those of you who are also sharing it across social media, taking your screenshots, but don't forget to make sure that you tag us tag us when whether you're on LinkedIn or you're on Facebook or Instagram, we'd like being able to see that sometimes people send me a direct message hey, did you see this? Like, No, I didn't see it because I didn't get tagged. But just tag us would be awesome, we'd really appreciate that. And also to for those of you that were leaving your honest written reviews, as well as ratings really appreciate that it helps us to continue to move up the charts. And lastly, you know what, if you want to see any of the previous episodes, you want to listen to any of the previous episodes, all you need to do is go to first gen cpe.com forward slash podcasts. And you can check out every podcast that we've ever done. So first gen cpe.com forward slash podcast is a place to go to check out every single podcast. So as I talked about before, today's conversation, where we get a chance to speak to someone who's had three decades in the real estate space, done a number of different things, student housing development value add in urban and suburban areas, and continues to pivot. Right, that is one of the big things that we're going to talk about, you're going to hear how he's leveraging technology. And when you get a chance to learn from Michael's Urbanski, you're really, really going to love it. And we're gonna get to that just after this. Are you a busy high paid professional, someone that in the previous two years has earned $200,000 and is expected to earn $200,000 this year. Or maybe if you file jointly, previously, you've earned $300,000, the previous two years and you're also expected to do that this year, or maybe if not, either individually or jointly, you have a million dollars in net worth, not including your primary residence. If you meet any of these criteria, then you're someone that the IRS considers to be an accredited investor, that probably means you're someone like an enterprise software sales executive, you may be an executive in a major corporation, you may be a doctor, you may be a lawyer, maybe a high paid consultant, you may even work for a major sports franchise. And the thing I know you have in common is that you continue to do the hard work like you're doing 100% of the work. And you're only bringing home 50% of the reward because you continue to get crushed by your income taxes. If you're tired of this situation, and you're looking for a new solution, and go to first gen cp.com forward slash going along. When you get there, that's going to help you to start the journey so that you can begin to take back control of your taxes take control of your time. And then also that means you're going to be able to spend more of the time that you want with the people that you love the most. And that is the way that you're going to get the personal freedom that you're looking for. So if you're looking to take back control, go ahead and go to first ncp.com Ford slash going long, and see how we can help you today. So if you want to understand how tapping into three decades of real estate, private equity can massively accelerate your long distance investing success, then guess what? Today's the conversation that you're gonna want to listen to until the very last word, you know why? Because today's guests believe has been his entire professional life in the real estate space in one way or another. He's also has his education from the University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign, and he also has his JD law from Northwestern University. He's a board member today of the national multifamily council housing committee, as well as the member board member of the Michael Reese Health Trust. He's the CO CEO of prime property investors as well as the founder and Managing Member of MZ Capital Partners gives me great pleasure to welcome to today's conversation, mr. Michaels Urbanski Michael, welcome the show. Pleasure to be here, Billy. Hey, listen, you know what, and you're one of the other things he's also a two time author, and I'm sure that he's going to tell us a little bit more about that. And if you don't, Michael, I'll tell him about your books and stuff like that, which is going to be pretty pretty cool. As you know, Michael, I love to ask all of our guests At least five questions. Reality is you're gonna get more than that. You're gonna get two in the beginning, you're gonna get three in the very end, and in the middle. I have no idea but I'm sure whatever the answers you give are going to add lots of value to the going long family. So the very first thing I'd love for you to share with the girl on family, Michael is help us understand, what do you call home in the United States?

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05:20

I live in the suburbs of Chicago and live on the north shore in a suburb called Northbrook, Illinois. By design, my office is in Northbrook as well, there's a commercial corridor with Office structures where I office and I've been here in this community most of my adult life.

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Billy Keels  05:40

All right, absolutely. Fantastic. So up in Northbrook, appreciate that. And then Michael, help us understand what is the most positive thing that's happened to you in the last 24 hours.

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05:51

last 24 hours, the most positive thing was seen my two of my five grandkids in playing with them played hide and seek and love the fact that they're young enough to love being with me and spending time with me and not old enough to be bored and wanting to be with their friends.

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Billy Keels  06:13

You know, I don't you know, if you're not watching the video version of this, everybody, you need to like literally watch the video version because the smile on Michael's face goes from literally ear to ear as he's talking about this experience with the two of his five grandchildren. Which is absolutely fantastic. I appreciate you sharing that with this, Michael, because it's those little moments that really helped us realise that we don't have to wait for these magnificently spectacular things to recognise how fortunate we can be in a 24 hour day, it's simply being able to play hide and go seek with with two of your grandchildren. So thank you very much for that. I also want to just share a little bit of something with you that everybody in the going long family, they already know this about me, Michael, but I happen to be a recovering perfectionist, I try to do things at times, like set the bar so high, that it becomes impossible to achieve. For instance, trying to tell your entire backstory in two and a half seconds. That was never gonna happen, right? Because you've done way too much. You've impacted way too many lives. So I'm going to have to ask you for a favour right up front, which is number one, can you please tell your backstory in your own words, and you can go a lot longer than two and a half seconds. And the other thing is while you're telling your backstory, Michael, can you really help us understand like, what are some of the major decisions that you've made along the journey, and then we'll see where you and I take the conversation from there.

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07:33

So I love real estate. Always have. I started out in the real estate business buying smaller buildings in the Chicago metropolitan area. We call them three story walk ups, you see them in a lot of American cities, older brick buildings that did some remodelling of them, and renovation. And then from there, learned the importance of the overused word today a pivot of changing with the times and going through various levels and stages of seeing demographic trends following them and following the trends in real estate, evolved into condominium conversions built and jumped on the bandwagon of the student housing growth here in the United States, and built a student housing portfolio on seven major campuses here in the US exited those a number of years ago and focused on garden style suburban apartment communities. First acquiring existing properties that were already up and running and stabilised and using better management and modifications and improvements to receive better yields. And of late have been focused on ground up new construction development of taking a raw piece of land and developing an apartment community, principally suburban but some urban here in the United States, and have evolved as times have changed and learn that's the key. That's the key to success for me.

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Billy Keels  09:20

All right, fantastic. So understanding that key is that coming back to that word you talked about and then the thing the second thing you said was really understanding the importance of being able to pivot. I do want to just also give everybody a plug here or actually Michael to give you a plug here because you talked about the seven different major markets, seven major campuses across the US but also Michael has written one of his books is profit by investing in student housing. I believe that you've gained so much knowledge that you decided to share that knowledge to through a book and I know you have a second one as well Michael but there's a bunch of different questions I want to add that I do want to ask you but and your second book is purchase rehab reposition it Commercial, the commercial investment property. What gave you the impetus to really decide to sit down and share your experience and knowledge through books?

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10:13

I wish I could tell you I had this epiphany of wanting to wanting to share with the world. That was the result. It was basically a call from a publisher here in Chicago that publishes business books that saw an interview in one of the industry trade publications with me on student housing, and asked me if I'd ever consider writing a book, we got together for lunch. And it was kind of on my bucket list of boy, one day, I'd love to write a book. And here a publisher approached me. So I dove in and really thoroughly enjoyed it, the results I enjoy even more, it's aside from checking off the bucket list. I enjoy the fact that so many people in the industry, particularly in the student housing industry, over the years have said to me, I read your book, it really got me interested in student housing, and I made a career of innumerable people is great.

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Billy Keels  11:14

You know, Michael, it's amazing what can happen when you talk about the impact, but so many times it's not even the financial aspect, you're you're talking about a book that I'm sure today is still providing royalties and all that stuff. But what gives you the most satisfaction is more the impact that you're having on other people, and the fact that they're sharing their stories and what your experience has helped them be able to go out and achieve and the impact that it's providing them. Absolutely, absolutely. And it's interesting how these things happen, right? When you grew up, and you think everything and money is the answer to everything, you start realising No, a lot of it is just being able to share and be able to provide impact positive impact on others, makes it makes it great. So I do want to come back to one of the things because, you know, I mentioned it, you mentioned it as well that you've spent the majority of your professional life, if not all your professional life and real estate. You talked about where you started. And those three story walkups. I'm always curious, like, what was it about real estate that attracted you to it, and then that just attracted you to it, but decided that you wanted to continue to stay in that space.

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12:27

I do like from the non financial aspect of being able to take a property either an existing one or raw land, that's a blank slate, and creating something that people are going to us and putting your own personal imprint on it is really very rewarding to me. I also found as I got into it, that I liked the idea of seeing what was going on in the world at the time, and creating a property to fit those needs. Like today, for example, in apartments, building in work from home areas, in clubhouses and communities, co working areas and reservable work from home rooms for zoom calls or meetings in collaboration. I also liked the financial rewards of real estate. I have watched careers and seen a number of people that I've come into contact with that have created wealth for their families generational wealth, largely through appreciation of value of real estate. It's a commodity that is not infinite, it's limited because there's only so much space on planet Earth. Demand for it, particularly in multi family is there during inflationary times during recessionary times. It is recession proof. It's a hedge against inflation. And of late it is proven that you can't outsource it to the internet. You can work remotely. You can shop remotely, but you can't sleep on the internet. You need an apartment or home asleep.

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Billy Keels  14:27

I haven't seen never seen anyone try to curl up with their phone literally and sleep on the phone next to the phone maybe but that's a whole different story. We go down that rabbit hole. So one of the things so you've talked about being in different spaces different we talked about the student housing you also talked about development. You've also talked about the value add aspects. You know here one of the things that I like to talk about and people tend to want to be here because we know that they we don't have a geographical barrier. Right although the many of the books will say hey listen, you actually they need to live in the property. And if you want to be a landlord, you can do that. But as you start to get bigger, and you start to understand that investing is a team sport, geography becomes less of a barrier, at the same time recognise that that's very, very contrarian. Because Still, most people believe that you actually have to live two blocks away from the property that you're actually a part of or owning. So I'd be curious as to through your, you know, over 30 years of experience in this space, what is it that would allow you to say, Hey, listen, you know, it's okay to build a team and invest beyond my backyard, because

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15:37

I've seen the evolution principally, of technology in my career, from start to finish in the process of acquisition of a property of managing a property become such a tremendous tool, that it really literally does not matter where a property is, in order to successfully own it, and operate it. And in fact, I have a full I've developed a philosophy as a result, that if you can invest anywhere, or owned a property anywhere, you should do it, where there's the maximum potential for success. And that could include other states, I have not jumped over the ocean to overseas, but I have friends that have. But here in the United States, for example, we invest in an in developing multi states outside of our back yard. And frankly, when we are operating a property, because of technology today, and everything that's on the line, I have a dashboard for each of our properties, where I know exactly what's going on how many prospects there were, how many leases were written, who hasn't paid their rent, what our occupancy level is, and our average rents. And when I do go visit properties, which I like to do, I really know everything that's going on. It's more of a social visit and a building camaraderie. And it's very easy to manage remotely.

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Billy Keels  17:13

So and I have been doing this for a decade as well and doing it internationally, but always with a focus back in the United States. And so, I would love to hear just maybe you can tell, talk to us a little bit more about that last part, because I think that's the part when you say that it's you can manage it remotely. that provokes a lot of fear for people to say, Hang on a second, Whoa, yeah. But why would I ever do that? You know, this is a piece of this is a real asset, I need to be able to touch it, I need to be able to hold it. And I heard you talk about the technology piece, but maybe also to Michael, I know in the beginning, it wasn't necessarily easy. There were some things that I had to do and be exposed to and learn. But can you talk to us maybe about that that learning process that goes from I've never done this before to understanding that remotely? You know, if you can wake up in Northbrook and be there and your properties or somewhere else, your assets somewhere else. It allows you to even get a higher quality of life, maybe but talk us through that what that transition is like to get to that feeling of okay remotes just fine. It's like everything else.

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18:15

Yeah, 100% I get it. And i i As I lived through the change in technology, I also lived through changes in behaviour of the renting public, and employees. And what I found is they move much quicker than I did in accepting and embracing it. For example, I'm old enough and around long enough to remember running ads in newspapers of apartments for rent, you know, newspapers, or those things that you've never seen one. And then meeting someone at a building in order to show them an apartment. Day, it's 24/7 online through various sites or our own website. And using technology where where a prospect could have a virtual tour of a property, actually go inside of an apartment and click around and see every inch of it. See all the rental rates the square footages get their own furniture to kind of fit in the floor plan and then even make application online and apply online and then execute a lease online. And I find that the evolution of the consumer that we serve was so quick into embracing that, that renters prefer the non in person contact prefer a 2am in the morning, browsing of apartments and making application because they happen to be up and looking for something to do in like they pay Do a virtual tour. So, so you could, I found that you could fight wanting to hold on to and keep the in person gotta be two blocks from my house, love have a property, but the rest of the world is not into it.

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Billy Keels  20:20

Trusting that you enjoyed today's conversation. And you know, if you're tired of getting crushed by taxes, and you're looking for greater freedom to be able to choose what you want to do when you want to do it, make sure that you go to first ncp.com Ford slash going long, and see how we can help you today. Let's get back to the conversation. So recognising that the rest of the world like the majority are not into that, and they want to be able to watch it two or 3am? Or do whatever. What have you found that that has done also from I guess two aspects come to mind number one, from a customer centric type of focus, right? And then number two from a business efficiency, because I would assume that there's some efficiencies there as well that maybe people aren't thinking about maybe can you talk to us about those two aspects, you're in your own business efficiency, and also customer centricity?

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21:09

Yeah, in terms of the customer, we still do have contact with and rely on local on site management, particularly for maintenance, because it's, you know, something can't be done remotely. On site. Also, you know, in office in person for people to interact with, with a manager and assistant manager. But in terms of overall efficiency, I mean, it just literally, it's, it's amazing how you can see what's going on in real time, both from a feedback standpoint, and see how many people are looking and applying for apartments. And then also, just from a financial performance standpoint, with a click of a button, a complete rent roll, or a real time income and expense statement, you had a property that used to take months to complete. It's incredible how businesses change.

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Billy Keels  22:09

And when you're able to collapse timeframes, see how rapidly business can change and the way that you're also able to once again, one thing you said earlier pivot and be able to respond to tenant needs customer needs, visit resident needs, however you call it and be able to do that all from the fingertips of your phone or your dashboard on your lawn, your laptop, it's pretty amazing. I do want to ask you another question, because this also has to do with one of the things I talked about before just from your own background. So the law profession, where law from, from a from a law perspective or legal perspective, help us understand because sometimes when you're doing due diligence, just in general, right, because that's a big blanket term. But how has your educational training helped you today, in terms of your ability to lead teams and be more proficient, through due diligence?

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23:05

I think, on the acquisition and disposition side of the business, which is an important part of it, the legal background probably is most useful. From our standpoint, I think it has taught me to focus on what's important and not and not get bogged down with the lawyers in the transaction on details that don't matter, knowing what to let go and what to press in terms of a contract negotiation on acquisition of a property. And same thing on a desk on a disposition or when it comes to the financing part of it. mortgage financing, which is a key component to success in the real estate business, negotiating those documents, and focusing again on what's important, and not letting the transaction have a life of its own and go off on tangents. I think that's been very helpful.

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Billy Keels  24:11

Okay, fantastic. And really understanding recognising both on acquisition time the the purchase on the disposition when you're, you know, moving the property on to the next owner or what have you. Having that, that foresight, having that draining background as well to understand like, Hey, listen, where do we, where do we press? What do we release? And how do we make sure we keep our eye on the big picture to get to the outcome versus getting bogged down sometimes in some detail that probably don't need to get too bogged down into? Yeah, you do want to say something else? Go ahead.

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24:42

Yeah, also, just on the day to day operation side, we do things by the book and follow all the rules and regulations I've learned. And maybe it's a little bit of the legal background, but more practical business sense. It makes sense just To straighten straight line straight and narrow, not deviate no shortcuts, because it's just, it's just aside from being the right way to run a business. It's just such a distraction to get pulled into, you know, issues and problems for not following the rules.

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Billy Keels  25:20

I agree with you there. I agree with you there. Two other things that I wanted to ask you about Michael. One of which is, you know, you've seen you've pivoted, you've gone from the, as you'd mentioned before, the those three story walkups in the student housing, the value add the development, and you've seen the technological change and things like that. And I really want to know, or myself and the entire going on family is, what aspect did being able to network be exposed to these new types of opportunities? And or teams? Like, how has that played a role in your ability to be able to pivot and kind of see where the puck is going? The proverbial puck is going versus kind of where it is today?

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26:06

Yeah, I think I think for me, and many others, who I know who, who have achieved success in the business, that networking and knowledge as to what's going on in the industry through the activity and trade associations, and the sharing, that we've talked about. That's been so important in learning and seeing the direction of trends in the industry. I also find various business groups that even not necessarily are focused exclusively on real estate, have given me insight and ideas, I happen to have been active and involved in an organisation called the Young Presidents organisation YPO, when I was when I was a young president, now I'm in a group called YPO gold, which is for the alumni of YPO. And I find that group to be invaluable, it operates on a system of helping members helping members in a confidential, complete trust setting. And I learned a lot in participate in a number of their conferences, and just been a tremendous learning experience and a tremendous base for any success that I've received that I've achieved in real estate. You know, I

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Billy Keels  27:36

love hearing that because as you talked about the the successes that you've achieved in real estate, but also you've been able to attribute that to the two different leadership organisations that are outside of real estate. And you recognise that that scene all the time. I mean, one of the things I used to do, I used to work for a very large enterprise software company. And we would go in and speak with, you know, CEOs of multibillion euro type of companies. And one of the meetings that you just made me think about this was, I remember going into this company does about, I think, is two and a half billion in turnover, euros or whatever the time, that was probably $4 billion, something like that. And when we spoke to the CEO of the company, he didn't want to hear about his industry peers, he wanted to hear about, and this was a hotel industry, he wanted to hear about what things were happening in the telco sector, he wanted to hear about the things that were happening in the I think one was telco, and the other was consumer products. So what he was, so it's very similar to what you're talking about is you don't necessarily need to always be in your own industry, because a lot of the innovation, a lot of the new ideas comes from speaking to people who are at a similar or higher level, maybe not even the higher level, but they're just they're giving you different inputs of how they're are attacking their particular problems. And you can see oh, wait, hang on a second. I can apply that to my specific situation.

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28:54

100% right on and there's a couple as you were speaking, there were a couple of examples of that that came to mind. You mentioned the hotel industry. I love learning about the hotel industry. And taking deep dives I've had tours of a couple of hotels that are high levels of service. And I've actually adopted them in our multifamily communities to provide that concierge type service to our residents and distinguish us same thing on the fitness industry used to be in the apartment business. When when people started joining gyms, we would take an apartment and throw in a couple of exercise machines and call that the fitness centre. But now we design state of the art killer fitness centres that are patterned off the most successful fitness centre experiences.

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Billy Keels  29:49

Yeah, no, that's, that's absolutely fantastic. And it's great to hear that this happens. You know, constantly it's about how do we shift back to your point earlier? How do we come together? How do we share ideas and then use those ideas adapt them to our specific situation with a goal of providing the right outcome for our clients. When we can do that and do that consistently, then that allows us to continue to build the relationship, deepen the relationship with our, with our clients, and improve their experience. So here's the thing, Michael, like, I want to keep talking to you forever, right? But we kind of got to get to this thing called the going long, final three. And you know, you're our special guest today. And I'm never ever ever going to ask anybody to go along final three and not you today. Unless you tell me that you're ready. So my question for you is, are you ready? I'm ready. You were born ready, man? I knew that was gonna be the answer. So here we go. So we started with you over in Northbrook, Illinois, and I'm a Midwest guy as well. I'm from Columbus, Ohio. But over the last 21 years I've called Europe, my home and last 15 years has been here in Barcelona. So I would love for you to share with us I know you're well travelled as well. So help us understand what is your favourite European city that you either visited, which I know you've visited a lot already, or is still on your bucket list to visit.

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30:59

I got to say Prague, I love Prague city of Prague in and kind of maybe it was because I was surprised. I was blown away and expect in that country to find such a beautiful city that bridges the waters, that culture just kind of blew me away.

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Billy Keels  31:15

And it's absolutely amazing. I'm gonna guess that you were there in the summertime. Yes.

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31:19

My response? Yeah.

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Billy Keels  31:23

Guess who spent a month there in January of 2006. Absolutely beautiful, absolutely beautiful, just a different experience, just a different experience. So awesome. So I appreciate that. So Prague is going to include that in the show notes. And then the second thing that I'd love to know from you, Michael is, and I have to just tell you like this is one of the things that I have seen from the very good fortune that I've had to be exposed to lots of very successful people. And I consider you to be someone who's very successful, you've over three decades impacted, you know, 1000s, if not 10s of 1000s, if not millions of lives, through the different roles that you've played. And hopefully you agree with me that, you know, one of the things that I've seen, I've noticed from really successful people is typically the successful people, unlike most, whenever they kind of have an idea, they put that idea together, they go out and they execute that idea. They get everything right the first time, which is what allows them to actually go even fat Don't worry, Michael, it's kind of a joke. Like, he's super cool, calm and collected everybody Michael's like, but he's like going, Oh, given that you just said

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32:34

I was gonna, I was thinking, how am I gonna answer this?

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Billy Keels  32:39

This guy, hang on. Now it's a joke. Of course, it's a joke. So here's the thing. Maybe it happens that they get things right every time or just one time, but not every time. The reality Michael, and you know, this, people that are really successful tend to make a lot more mistakes or have more learning opportunities. And most people probably 20 to 50 times more, because they're all trying more things. And the joke aside, like the first part was a joke. This is not a joke at all. And hopefully, yes, you do agree with me. Like, the thing that happens with those people that are very successful is every single time that they go out, and they make a relevant mistake, or learning opportunity, or whatever you call it. Every single time that happens. Without fault, they stop. They learn from that irrelevant mistake. And then what they do after that is pretty amazing. They go out and they put different strategies, tactics and actions in place to minimise the probability of that exact same thing happening again. So I don't want you to think about the mistake that happened or that you or that that you made or the learning opportunity, however you want to call it. But really share with us that one lesson that you know, the going long family needs to hear today. So we can minimise the probability of that exact same thing happening to us.

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33:50

So the lesson that's implicit in what you've said, and it's obvious, true, what you said, is that I think successful people and people that are making things happen are doing things. They're actually trying things. They're not sitting there thinking about things and analysing it to death. And they file file they follow rather a slogan that I probably say too much in my office to kind of roll my eyes when I say it, but I love it. So I repeated a lot when we're in the middle of potentially moving forward on something and I say, Okay, it's time to ready, fire, aim. And too many people are sitting around, Ready, Aim Fire, and you can aim yourself to death and never do anything. You got to take the leap.

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Billy Keels  34:46

Love that. So really get out there, take the leap, make the jump and ready fire aim and and be able to to get out there so appreciate you sharing that with us, Michael. And that brings us to question number three, which is also about filling our minds with knowledge. Now, we've already talked about your two books, we'll make sure that those are in the show notes as well. So if you want to go out and check out his books and profit by investing in profit by investing in student housing, as well as purchase rehab, reposition commercial investment properties, we'll include both of those links of those links in the show notes. Also would love to know another book that you would recommend to help go along family feed our minds today.

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35:31

You know, I'm such a real estate guy that I wish I could give you something are really filled, you fill your mind on a profound level. But one of my heroes in the real estate business is a guy by the name of Sam Zell, he happens to be based in Chicago. It's one of the most successful real estate entrepreneurs in history. He's the largest apartment owner in the United States. And Sam wrote a book recently. That is kind of the story of his philosophy in real estate. And I highly, highly recommend it, it carries over into life, and it carries over into other businesses as well.

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Billy Keels  36:16

All right, fantastic. So we will we will find that one. You wouldn't have to know the name of her after

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36:21

I got it on my shelf. If you don't mind me. Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, no,

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Billy Keels  36:25

no, no, we got a couple of we got a couple of seconds. So we can, we can do that.

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36:30

You know what? Must be on my other shelf.

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Billy Keels  36:36

It's all it's all good. Don't Don't worry, don't worry, we'll get it, we'll get it, we've got a couple we've got you covered. So we'll get we'll get it there, we will include the SAM Zales book. And you know, I'm just going back to the to the beginning of our conversation. And I'm thinking to myself, while you're telling us about this, this love for the real estate profession. Already, you're there, the small three story walkups, you have that special word that you learned, which was to get out there and pivot. And so as you were in a space that you were able to see, because you had real assets, tangible assets, you're able to see what was happening, you made one of your first pivots was into from the from the walkups, to the seven different major campuses in the student housing space, we were able to do that and then went to the garden style, urban type of properties. In suburbs, you also focus more on the suburban versus urban, you were out in the development space. And then also a lot of the life lessons and being able to understand the importance of networking, building teams being able to look to solve a specific issue or a specific problem to be able to go out and add value for others, drawing on your own educational background and seeing how that helps you from a due diligence and lead your teams, whether it's on the acquisition on the disposition side of things. And then also, so many of the things that you're doing with MZ Capital Partners, we would love to know and everybody here is already saying, Billy, just be quiet and ask him the question. So here's the thing. Help us understand Michael, how can the going long family find out more about you also more about what you're doing a MZ Capital Partners and so that we can connect?

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38:13

Sure. Best way is to check us out on our website, and Z capital partners.com. Feel free to contact me directly at MHz at MZ capital partners.com. And I'm always happy to share an exchange and heavy check us out on our website.

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Billy Keels  38:33

All right, perfect. So listen, everybody. And don't worry, we're gonna make that easy. We're just gonna, all you have to do is click a link, right? You're talking about technology, we're gonna make it easy and simple for you. So you can get in touch with Michael directly find out more about him go to MC capital.com. And listen, Michael, I just want to say thank you. It is MZ capital partners.com. Right. Now, I just want to make sure I said that. But like I said, there's going to be a link. So we the team gets it right. So here's the thing. I just want to say thank you very much. I really appreciate you deciding to invest your time with me and the entire going long family. Thank you so much.

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39:05

My pleasure. It's great. Talking to you and getting to know you a little better.

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Billy Keels  39:10

All right, fantastic. Michael, forgive me literally, like 15 seconds, we'll wrap things up and get out of here. So going on family. Listen, Michael, he shared so much with you today. Based over his three decades of experience. He's helped you to understand different types of assets within the real asset space. Talk to you about value add, he talked to you about development, building teams, leveraging previous experience and ultimately, even things like technology to bring a better experience to your customers. So listen, take today's conversation, share it with your friends, share it with your family, have the conversation so that you can go from theory to practice. And while you're doing that, I'll be here preparing for the next conversation. So until then go out and make it a great day. And thank you very much. Trust that you enjoy today's conversation. And once again, today's conversation was sponsored by first generation Capital Partners if you're an accredited investor Want to find out more about how we're helping accredited investors to gain their personal freedom even faster? Go to firstncp.com forward slash going long.

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