‍Billy Keels  00:00

Today's conversation is sponsored by first generation Capital Partners. If you're an accredited investor, and you want to know about how we're helping other accredited investors keep more of their income, go to firstgencp.com, forward slash going long.

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00:12

I'm a born teacher, if I know something, I get so excited. And I want to tell people, I interrupt a lot. And people say you interrupt me a lot. I said, I'm just so excited about what you're saying, I want to tell you all I know about it. And I want to, I want to hear what you have to say if they can teach me and if I can teach them. I love that give and take. It's just something that's inside of me that just comes out.

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00:29

You're listening to the going long podcast with Billy keels, the number one podcast for long distance real asset investing.

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Billy Keels  00:39

Welcome to the gold long podcast, we're back once again to continue to help to educate you so you feel much more comfortable as well as confident investing beyond your backyard. And yes, I am your host, Billy keels, and I am so looking forward to bringing you today's conversation because it's just another awesome one bullet energy really enjoying being here with you. So I want to say thank you for continuing to keep the podcast up in the top 1.5% of podcasts globally. Thank you for continuing to share across social media tagging us really means a lot. And also to you want to leave your honest written review as well as rating feel free to do that, we always appreciate it. And everyone who is looking to find out more about the previous episodes, go to first gen cp.com forward slash podcasts. That's first ncp.com forward slash podcast, find every single thing you'd ever want audio video transcripts, all that stuff is there. So with that, listen, we're gonna get into today's conversation. And, you know, if you are really wanting to understand how you can continue to make the transition how you can transition from a a person who is relying on one stream of income to looking for other streams of income, you're looking to either become someone who's very active in your investing or continue to be passive, but looking for different types different ways. Today's conversation is going to be one that you're really going to want to listen to, because we've been talking about one very unique strategy, that I won't ruin it, because you'll need to listen to the episode to understand what that is. But we're gonna get to the conversation with Mr. Powell. And we're gonna get to that just after this. Are you a busy high paid professional, someone that in the previous two years has earned $200,000 and is expected to earn $200,000 this year. Or maybe if you file jointly, previously, you've earned $300,000 The previous two years and you're also expected to do that this year. Or maybe if not, either individually or jointly, you have a million dollars in net worth not including your primary residence. If you meet any of these criteria, then you're someone that the IRS considers to be an accredited investor, that probably means you're someone like an enterprise software sales executive, you may be an executive in a major corporation, you may be a doctor, you may be a lawyer may be a high paid consultant, you may even work for a major sports franchise, the thing I know you have in common is that you continue to do the hard work like you're doing 100% of the work. And you're only bringing home 50% of the reward because you continue to get crushed by your income taxes. If you are tired of this situation and you're looking for a new solution, then go to first gen cp.com forward slash going along. When you get there, that's going to help you to start the journey so that you can begin to take back control of your taxes take control of your time. And then also that means you're going to be able to spend more of the time that you want with the people that you love the most. And that is the way that you're going to get the personal freedom that you're looking for. So if you're looking to take back control, go ahead and go to first ncp.com forward slash going long and see how we can help you today. So you know what, if you want to know the importance of the more you know, what you invest in, the less risk that you're gonna take in long distance investing thing, guess what today's conversation you're gonna want to listen to until the bear with me. Last word, I promise. I promise, I promise. You know why? Because today's guest check this up, not only learned graphic design, drawing floor plans as a kid like That sounds really cool. I want to find out more about that. She also spent 10 years as a real estate photographer. I think the origins came from somewhere else. But I'll let her tell that story. You know what she also realised that she was doing that. So she was kind of on the wrong side of the fence. And so she decided, well, she needed to go on the other side of the fence. But even before that, she had various roles in marketing as well as business ownership. And I think she may even be a huge rugby fan, and maybe even a former player. And so you know what? It gives me great pleasure to welcome to today's conversation, the owner of high rise group, Emma Pao. Emma, welcome to the show.

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04:23

Thank you so much. I'm actually been really looking forward to doing this show for quite a while you are living the lifestyle that we are planning to transition to and so it's all about who not how and so by following you and following others who are living that lifestyle, we have gotten a lot of great tips and gotten the bravery to finally step off the dock. So we got some adventures planned for this year.

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Billy Keels  04:43

Yes, I love it. Love it, love it, love it in the entire going on family loves that. So awesome. So Emma, listen, I think you know, I'm going to ask you five questions. Well, in reality, I'm gonna ask you a lot more than five questions but five that I'm gonna ask you for sure. So you're gonna get them beginning through you're gonna get at the end. So I want to jump in with question number one, as long as you're ready, fire away. Alright, here we go. Help us understand. Where is it that you call home in the United States?

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05:10

Well, I always say like right now, we're living in a city. I grew up in Seattle for 20 years, my husband grew up in Idaho, just outside of Yellowstone. And then we were in Austin, Texas for 20 years. So we moved to Salt Lake City about five years ago for a job. And we do have some loose family ties here. But he got laid off in November. And so like, we don't need to be here, let's let's just a Briton, just go on an adventure. And so he's, he's not going back to work for now. If he does, it'll be fully remote. And so we're, we're finally taking the opportunity to be location independent and untethered from web two, and we're going to make the most of it. So I don't know where we're going to end up. We're going to be in Arizona for a couple months that can Idaho we're gonna go see some family in Seattle. And I think we're going to spend a couple of months maybe here in Orlando.

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Billy Keels  05:57

Awesome. So I don't know, if you're not watching the video version, you should check out the video version, everyone because I'm like super smiling ear to ear as I'm watching him talk about the plans that they have planned in moving and where they may be in Arizona and Orlando, and all that other kind of stuff. That sounds really, really cool. So thank you for that. Appreciate it. And then question number two, help us understand what's the most positive thing that's happened to you or for you in the last 24 hours.

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06:23

Honestly, this podcast, like I said, I've been looking forward to it for a really long time, when you're staring down the barrel of going and doing something like this, the details can be overwhelming, I'm actually reading a book right now, just by coincidence about a woman who had her life turned upside down. And she's going off into this unknown adventure and all the anxiety that she's having. And I was really overly relating to her about a while back to this, and this, I don't know what to expect. And it feels like I'm pregnant with my first baby. And I'm reading all this stuff and looking at all the things and, and just not really sure what to expect still. And so I I think it's good to turn and focus on the positive parts of why we're making these changes. And why we're doing this instead of all the details and all the anxiety of travelling like this with a family.

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Billy Keels  07:07

Yep, once you have your TrueNorth, you just kind of keep moving in that direction. Some days, you're gonna go left, some days, you're gonna write and then some days, you're gonna go well, we're supposed to do today and just know where your TrueNorth is, and keep going. So I appreciate also you sharing that positivity with us. And you know, I'm also going to kind of, I guess, I need to share something with you most of the going on family knows this already. But I am a recovering perfectionist. And so what that means is sometimes I do things that are not even, I guess, in the realm of reality, like I tried to do things that are almost impossible to do. Let me give you an example of that, for instance, trying to tell your entire backstory in two and a half seconds. That was never gonna happen. But I keep trying it right, I keep trying it over and over and over. Because boy, it's just this gene that I have. So forgive me for trying to tell your entire backstory in two and a half seconds. Hopefully you will forgive me. And most importantly, hopefully you will help me because I want to make sure that the entire going long family understands more about you your story. So could you please tell your own backstory in your own words, and you can take a lot more than two and a half seconds, take the time that you need to tell your backstory. And I do have one thing that I want to ask because I guess I'm the host of the show. So I can ask another favour, which is, can you also talk to us about some of the difficult decisions that you made to get to this point in your journey and then we'll see where you and I take the conversation from there.

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08:25

I always like to describe myself as a mix of just conformance to mainstream type of lifestyle and also off the beaten path. And I've always found that trying to be a nonconformist, it's a conformity of a different sort. And so I tried to just put all of that out of my mind, what's popular and what's not popular, what's mainstream and what's not, and just really go with what I'm feeling and find people who are doing what I'm doing. And whether it's mainstream or not, I don't really care. And so some of the stuff that I do is super boring, like stay at home soccer mom, and trying to just work like a little cottage business freelance type of business to make ends meet. So I put my kids in piano lessons, you know, all that typical stuff that most people can relate to. And then there's the other half that just really felt like, if this isn't working for me, I need to just widen my perceptions. And so, you know, we homeschool our kids, we have six kids, it's like going off the beaten path in certain ways. We were practising religious, but at the same time, we're not. I don't know if I would call myself a full believer, but I really do enjoy the the tradition and the family background of, of our of our faith practice. And so all of these types of things come together to create something where I'm just looking down the tunnel at something and there's a problem to be solved. And I'm just going to figure out how to solve the problem. And that's really where the backstory comes from. So those some of those difficult decisions. I've been wanting to live abroad for a really long time I did before I was married, and it was a great experience. I really enjoyed it. My mom grew up in England as an expat. And so I really felt like that was such a fun adventure for me and I've been trying to get back at that. So some of the difficult decisions like with each additional child that we had that I really wanted that child. But I knew that it was going to tie us down more, we had to think about school, the way that we think about friends, we have to think about keeping close to family and grandparents. And so really just for decades giving up on that I really want to go abroad. And my husband, knowing that was a huge desire of mine. But as the provider, he needs to keep us in the location of the W two, because you know, in the days before remote work, you were really tied down to a particular city. And so we were in Austin, for 20 years, we weren't near family, we weren't near cousins, we were just kind of isolated out there because of this job. And I just wondered like, why, why are we doing this? Why can't we just run off to Mexico or go back to Eastern Europe and, and it's been just a really, really difficult process of, of him not really wanting that wanting to sit down roots get a ranch, that kind of stuff. And me, just being restless for so long. I love to move, I'm always house shopping, I'm always looking at opportunities. And, and so just being able to give that up for so long. And now finally, he's able to say like, I'm no longer working, we're homeschooling our kids, we're location independent. We've been doing what I wanted to do for 20 years, we married for 25 years, let's take some time out and go do what you want to do. And so I knew I needed to make some decent money, I knew I needed to make a high income. And so that's where real estate stepped in. Because I love real estate, obviously, from my background. And obviously, you know, as a photographer for so many years, I do really love architecture and buildings, and I love the stories of the people who live there. But I knew that with my skill set that was the highest income that I could possibly earn, I couldn't go back to medical school or something like that. I said, What can I do right now that has the highest income earning potential and it was real estate. And it was fortunate that I already loved it. Because I got to bring those two things together in a way that could really support my family. So that's the goal we've been working towards for the last five years is how to untether ourselves from a location and a time zone so that we can go on an adventure. So that's really the backstory of where I started as a stay at home freelance mom, and where we are today where my husband is stepping into early retirement and we're getting ready to go on some adventures.

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Billy Keels  12:04

Getting ready to go on adventures is phenomenal. And the fact that you've been able to have these goals that you know, that you will realise for yourself. And now with as you mentioned, I remember when I got to Europe in 2001, because I was here by myself, I went from Paris down to telecom up again and then went from there to Italy. And when you are by yourself, you know you're basically making decisions for yourself. And as you have to take on more responsibility that also takes on a place in terms of your decision making. So I appreciate you also just the reality of that, because I think sometimes people forget to tell parts of the story like, Hey, listen, you know what I was doing this before, because I was kind of travelling by myself. And then I decided to get a lot more responsibilities. And so I had to take those things into into effect. And so that that helps to and you talked about before in the very beginning, like you want to keep it real. So that's what we're here to do is to is to is to keep it real. So but I do want to I want to dive into kind of one of the things that can you talk about, like the last five years, you've been doing this stuff. One of the things that, like I come from a software background, I guy was out high wage earner, you know, making a lot of money selling software, leading teams of software salespeople in the enterprise software space. And I kind of came across real estate, not really knowing that I was going to come across real estate. For me, it's now not just real estate, it's real assets in general. But you'd already seen like, how did you even get into the real estate photography stuff? Because that's because it seemed like that was the that was the bridge to get you to realise you're on the wrong side of fence. But how did you even get there?

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13:37

Well, I as a graphic designer, self taught graphic designer and tell online courses in Photoshop for I don't know how many years on a hobby website. And I didn't have a degree in art or anything at the time. And I realised that I could sell more classes if the photos that I was using to sell the classes looked better. And so I had a sister who was a hobbyist photographer, I called her up and I said my photos look terrible. You're a beautiful photographer, teach me. And so she gave me the books, the resources, I went out and bought a nice camera, borrow stuff from some friends and just really dove into it. And I was started making more money at photography than I was at the graphic design and the online courses. And so I really dove into that. And I got into the photography world. And I started looking at what was the highest profit margin of any type of photography and the two were weddings on the weekends for consumer photography, and then commercial photography during the week. And so even back then I was like if I'm going to spend time away from my family, it better have a high ROI. And so I started doing weddings and the commercial photography. I couldn't really get my head wrapped around. But my next door neighbour, I had photographed her son's wedding and she came over and she said, she said we're moving. And I would love if you could come photograph the inside of our house for the listing and I had never heard of that. I knew that the the realtor would come in and they would snap a couple of crappy shots and nobody would really look at them. But apparently the photography for real estate had come a long way since the last house that we had bought 10 or 10 years before? And I said, Well, sure, it didn't really make any sense to me. So I read a couple of articles on real estate photography, no role at all. This was his whole world, and this whole art form and this whole technique and, and I love a good rabbit hole to dive down as far as learning and extending my skills and my knowledge, I have 1000 hobbies. So I went over there and shot her house, it was terrible. I mean, she couldn't use the pictures, they ended up having to hire a professional, I didn't have the right wide angle lens, I didn't have the right lighting. But it was so fun. And I had been in that house a lot of times, a lot of times, and upstairs, downstairs, we babysat their pet like it wasn't like the house was new to me. But going around the house by myself. And just seeing the stories and the experiences and the memories that they had made in this house. It really moved me and I came out of there. And I said these pictures are terrible. But I'm gonna send it to you anyway, in case there's anything you can use. But I fell in love with it at that moment. So I just started calling other agents and asking if they wanted a free shoot, I figured I'd do five or 10 Free shoots and start a business. And I found somebody who said, No, we already have a photographer. But she said that she's short handed, why don't you give her a call. So I did. And I started 1099 freelance contracting for her and she just trained me. And I worked for her for probably eight years, in addition to some of my freelance work that I did, and I just I love it, I actually wasn't a very good real estate photographer. But you can't deny how much I enjoyed doing it.

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Billy Keels  16:18

And so when you realise that you enjoy doing something, it gives you this energy, right? I look at things in a way now, which is what things give you energy, what things take energy away from you. And so the fact that you if I kind of rewind it, like from the very beginning, you went to someone who was already an expert in your world, which was your sister, and so she recommended books. So you thought you started with the theory, you went from the theory, you started gaining practice. And then very realistically, the very first time you did something, it wasn't perfect, it was actually pretty bad. When you look on it now, right? And so you're keeping it real, like go back to what you talked about before, you're just keeping it real. And I think a lot of times, people, we will tend to hear that there's this theory, we put the theory into practice, and we got it right the first time. That's not usually how it happens, actually you and said you realise that there were people that were going to do it a lot worse, because they were realtors, and you knew that you would do it better than them. And most importantly, it gave you energy. So you recognise that the first time wasn't the best. But then you went out and you got more reps. I'm gonna guess that probably the time that you did it like the 1,000th time, would you say that it was better than the first time you did it?

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17:21

Yeah, you have good days, you have bad days. And like I said, that was never really my skill and my gift at real estate photography. Like she never assigned me the luxury homes, or anything like that unless she was really strapped. But it was something that my bread and butter and I could just turn it over. But like you said it was more about the energy, you don't have to be good at something to love something like Andre Agassi is a perfect example of this. He is a elite tennis player and then wrote a whole book about how much he hates tennis. And I'm I'm the opposite, where I look like there are a lot of things I enjoy doing that I'm only so so. But because I get so much energy and excitement from doing it, I keep doing it. And I keep doing it. And I keep getting better and better and better. Even if I don't have any expectations. I'm going to be elite at any of the stuff that I do. We do real estate investing, but I get energy off of it. And I get success off of it. And for me, that's what life is all well.

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Billy Keels  18:07

Yeah, well, let's pivot to that then. Right? Because there's there's energy which is positive energy. And you talked about this thing that a lot of us know and understand are real assets, specifically real estate. And you're talking about, you're talking about doing something pretty contrarian, to most people's point of view. I know when we started this podcast a couple years ago, it was completely contrarian, the global pandemic kind of changed things. But before, like the fact that I'm living in Europe in investing exclusively back in the US, like most people were like, well, why could you ever do that like that? You should never do that. You were living in Texas. Now you're living in Utah. And I think a little birdie told me that you happen to be investing in multiple geographies. Yeah, that's super contrarian. And like most people will tell you if you're going to get into any kind of investing, especially real estate, you want to stay within like 30 minutes of your home so you can always go over and see the property and all that kind of stuff. So I really want to know and I would love for you to share with the glenmont family, like what was it that motivated you or gave you the I guess the security to be able to say, You know what, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna invest places that are not even within an hour drive. Talk to us about that. Why long distance investing?

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19:20

Well, there are a couple of reasons for it. The first is I have a car and I like to go on adventures so why not? I don't actually really love getting there. I don't really love flying or travelling. I try and keep my travelling to minimum I just like wandering places and living places. But when we first moved to Salt Lake City, I felt like Austin was too far away to invest still, that was it for our first one. So we picked my husband's hometown in Idaho. So we'd be driving up to see his parents. My daughter was going to school in the same talents college town he grew up in and we would be driving by this particular town and I would be looking at it from i 15 thinking this this place. This is where we should be investing. It's a bigger town. And it looks like it has a lot of opportunity. It's only two half hours or whatever, from Salt Lake City and we know this area a lot better than we know Salt Lake City, and that whole corridor from that border town in Idaho, up to his hometown near Yellowstone, we would just drive that corridor and just look for opportunities. And so we ended up buying several properties, our first commercial property in that Idaho town and ended up being a great fit. Because even though it's two and a half hours away, it's a day trip. And if I want to, I can go a little farther and stay overnight with my daughter or my in laws, and just make a trip out of it. And so for me, it was the convenience factor, I would hear wholesaler selling things in Salt Lake City in these little towns, I don't even know where they were. But in Austin, because I was a photographer for so long, I had been to so many of these little suburbs, and these little sub pockets in the area. And I just didn't know Salt Lake City like that at all. And so for me, it was just a matter of investing where you know, which was where my daughter was living in that college town. And also along that corridor of places we had been, when my husband and I first got married, we lived in Idaho for two years. And so I knew that I knew that section of the country better. So for me, that made sense, it wasn't too far away, we're driving by it anyway. And we knew the area better.

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Billy Keels  21:05

Fantastic. And so this is part of you know, there's so many different reasons that we get into investing in being able to feel comfortable doing it long distance, right, you the fact that you were driving by the place, and it was, you know, a couple hours, two and a half hours away in the fact that you also like to get in your car and drive, right. And so these, all of these different factors, plus you think about the places that you continue to invest, where you actually knew the team knew the places or you knew the towns, and all of that comes into play, like I was living in Europe, and I ended up investing in a place because I had family pretty much nearby. And I was thinking, well look, if something goes wrong, or excuse me, when something goes wrong, I at least want to be able to pick up the phone and call a family member, not the way that I do things today. But you got to start somewhere. Right. And it's very similar to what you talked about before, like you took your first photography, like, like your shoots, and you wanted to get started, you want to go from theory to practice, and you wanted to figure out if that was in fact, the thing that gave you more energy. So

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22:00

well, right? Oh, so I was gonna say you start out with a family members live close by but you quickly graduate to knowing that you have a partner that lives nearby. That's good enough. So our second commercial property was a Little Rock, Arkansas, I'd never even I think I've driven through Arkansas once. I didn't know anything about it. But we did have partners who were just a couple of hours away in North Texas. And so that made the that so that they could go check on the property. So I just, I make sure somebody's there guarding the castle, it doesn't necessarily have to be

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Billy Keels  22:28

me. Yeah. And usually, if it's you, depending on who you are and how you're wired, it's probably you're probably not the best person to do that. Anyway, I know that when I got started, one of the things I was so fortunate was the fact that I was 1000s of kilometres slash miles away, because I couldn't actually go to the property every day. So I had to focus on the process, not the properties. And like I said, I'm a recovering perfectionist. So I can imagine I would have been at the house every day all day. And that's definitely not the best way to serve your your clients. Trusting that you're enjoying today's conversation. And you know, if you're tired of getting crushed by taxes, and you're looking for greater freedom, to be able to choose what you want to do when you want to do it, make sure that you go to first ncp.com Ford slash going long, and see how we can help you today. Let's get back to the conversation. So I know one of the things that you also do, that you that you continue to do is you know you have this experience you have been able to like I said, You don't you don't do things perfectly the first time you learn, you iterate, you improve, and then you share. I know one of the things that you are very passionate about today is also sharing this experience that you have and being able to also help others to do something very similar. So maybe you can talk to us a little bit about what you're doing to share your experience and also to be able to help other people do something very similar.

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23:44

Well, I'm a born teacher, if I know something, I get so excited. And I want to tell people, I interrupt a lot. And people say you interrupt me a lot. I said, I'm just so excited about what you're saying, I want to tell you all I know about it. And I want to, I want to hear what you have to say if they can teach me and if I could teach them I love that give and take and so it's just something that's inside of me that just comes out on its own, it would be stupid for me to try to suppress it too much because it's just a natural part of my personality. And so I was seeing a lack in the syndication, commercial, multifamily syndication space of people who had some cash, but didn't want to be necessarily a limited partner. And they were like, I have 50 grand, I have 250 grand and I really want invest in a deal. But I want to partner with you, but I don't have a deal. I don't know what I'm doing. And real estate 50 grand or 150 grand, that's not very much money and you're really not going to move the needle even buying your way into a general partnership, like a joint venture with that kind of money. And so I started talking to some people and thinking and talking to my securities attorney, and he suggested the format of an investing club where we get together we look at deals and if we want to pool our capital and go buy into those deals together, we can now I don't have cash to buy into every deal but the club does. And so it's had to become more of a self sustaining organisation where they jump in there. We look at deals together and then we have all the documents and we use a website called Try vest, where you can jump in and create basically a joint venture and they manage everything for you on the back end. So the club members are very empowered to go and do that. And some of them want to pool their cash. And then they can go negotiate for a better return, basically, you know, they want a better split or, or better preferred return or some more access to the documents and the back end of things, then they're free to take their pool will be that sometimes I joined, and sometimes I don't. And that has led into investor education outside of that, like I have a YouTube channel, and we're going to be blogging our new adventures that we're doing this year. And so just being able to help people and educate people, because I'm so excited about this lifestyle, and the opportunity can't believe we're finally actually doing it after all these years, I just want to share it and show people like, you don't have to go and do what we're doing. But the point is, is to think about it and dream about it, and figure out what it would take to actually do it. And here we are actually doing it in real time and in front of you, and showing on the other YouTube channel like how to do it. So there's a difference between being inspired and believing and then learning the nuts and bolts, the more you learn about how the more empowered you are that you actually can. And so that's that's really where that extended it out to. And so basically starting a private equity fund for limited partners, where people were like, actually don't want to do a deal, I actually don't want to be in charge, I want to put my money in continue to do my profession, or my passive income dream or whatever it is. And I trust that there are lots of experienced managers and operators out there who could take care of my money. And so it's a way for me to serve both communities of people who are seeking passive income, whether they want to be more actively involved, or more passively involved, I just want to give people options and avenues and show them that, hey, look, you know, we're scraping by doing it. It's totally possible. You don't have to be rich, you don't have to be unusual, you just have to believe that you can do it and then get the people around you who can teach you how

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Billy Keels  26:45

you go move from the theory to the practice and be able to do that and a shout out to my buddy, Travis Smith as well. Because I know he's helping lots of people with with try best and things that they're doing. So you know, one of the things that I think probably before we get into the going on final three, I do want to ask you this, because as someone who is a, you know, a natural giver, someone who wants to continue to help and educate. I know you also spend, they're similar to me, you you really want to help people and understand that you spent a lot of time focusing on like risk and really understanding risk and how you should evaluate risk or can evaluate risk, right? Can you maybe talk to us about why is risk aversion and being able to educate others on how to get recognise the risk and being able to do things to mitigate risk, why that is such an important factor for you. And kind of what what similar thing like what, what drives that for you?

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27:42

Well, you have to understand it, you're gonna win some and you're gonna lose some. And once you get okay with that, that your overall portfolio level returns can still be fantastic. Even if a couple of the things that you invested in in there aren't that great. And I'm looking for an average return, I'm not looking to hit a home run every time, I figured that if I can put some cash into some deals that are well researched that sector well researched, that operator will research that property, I've done the due diligence. And then when I hand my money over, even when I'm in a general partnership, I usually just take on a minor role, I don't have a whole lot of control over what happens on the property. And I frankly don't want to, I don't want to be that detail oriented person who's taking care of things day to day, because I don't like it, I am only good at it. If that's the only thing that I'm doing, I have a hard time switching back and forth between the detail operation side and the visionary kind of CEO side. So I've just decided I'd rather be in the visionary space and leave the details to somebody else. Once I've put that in there. Since I don't have a tonne of control over it, I have to accept the outcome. Sometimes it's good. And sometimes it's bad. If we can weather through a bad market, then we usually have many years of a bull market. So I know that going in now you're going to mitigate risk by the more knowledge you have getting with more experienced operators, but I've seen experienced operators go completely arrived because they get so wrapped up in the sexiness of what they're doing. And the notoriety for being you know, we, you know, famous investors are and it goes to their head. And then they start doing Ponzi schemes and securities violations. And so more experienced doesn't always equal better. Sometimes it's worse because they know lots of loopholes and lots of little language plays that they can use to raise money. So I'm trying to look for just like solid, middle class types of operators where they are just out there everyday just getting it done. And that's who I'm really attracted to as an operator. If there's a beginner I definitely want to have more of a hands on of a training and teaching approach. I'm I'm willing to work with beginners, but they need to be really open to it. If they're young and they're hungry, but they're not really willing to learn because they got a little ego in there because they've had to have ego to make any progress. You got to be brash, you got to get out there, you got to be assertive, but if they're not teachable, then I don't want to work with them because, you know, you gotta know what you're doing. So that whole risk evaluation of identifying your ID he'll basically operator's like an ideal clients like, what is their personality trait? What type of person do I want to be working with? What type of property do I want to be investing in, and just doing your best, that's an 8020 rule 80% of the research and 20% of it, you just got to do by learning by doing and experience like doing and then 80% of your income will come from your 20% best performing properties. And I know that there's some down at the other side of it, that aren't going to be that great. But as long as the portfolio averages out, my risk is managed. Perfect. So

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Billy Keels  30:30

it's really taking the number one recognising that risk exists number two, looking at it globally, not just individually and then also to being proactive at the one thing I do want to dig in, because I know you're big into like, not just saying what but like how you do it. And so you mentioned the as you get to know someone as a potential operator, or potential syndicator. Like for that person who's listening to you for the first time and thinking, you know, I'm still in my w two, I really like what I'm doing. I'm this is like, I've been listening to the Belize podcast for, you know, six months a year, something like that, and I still haven't really, like, gotten to it, because I'm so busy with my job like, help that person like, like, when you say that they get to know this indicator, like what does that actually mean? Like? How, what are the specific like steps that they would take to recognise? Is this the person that actually gels with me? Or do they have enough experience, just to kind of help that person that's still thinking about it that person like I used to be like, I was like the person who was the, the the recovering perfectionist that just always thought about it and was afraid to kind of take the next step. Hope that person

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31:38

there's something about just starting, I am a recovering perfectionist now. But I've been doing it for so many decades that I'm actually kind of gotten a little sloppy, even, I'm not afraid to admit that right? I think for me, it was a programme called Fly lady where she was like, I want you to make a list of everything that you have to do. And I know you want to go to the computer and make a fancy thing with graphic design, right fonts and colours, and the perfect finder with colour coordinated tabs, before you're gonna get started. She said, I'm telling you get a pencil and draw on the back of your kids art project, just do something or you will never get started. And so following her programme probably 20 years ago is when I started, really has transformed my approach to things because you just get out there Done is better than nothing. 15 minutes is better than zero. Like that whole attitude of just keep moving and take keep taking those macro baby steps transformed the way that I do my business now. And so for me, I feel like if you haven't taken action, and after looking at studying and learning and you're still just not sure, well, then you're probably looking at too much money. It's like when a house doesn't sell was the number one reason the house doesn't sell, it's too expensive. If you put it on the market for $10 Would it sell yet you have 1000s of offers. And so the price is too high, it's not going to sell if your minimum investment is so high that you are having hives thinking about putting that much into your first investment, then, you know, sorry, syndicators, I have to I have to say there are other places like yieldstreet Crowdfunding types of websites where you can go and put in $500 $1,000, obviously, your returns are not going to be as high because the more money people put in the better incentives there are for them to put it in. But just just take it down a notch, put it into some smaller buckets and decide, look, if I have $50,000. And that's all you've got to invest. Putting that in one project as a limited partner is probably not the best plan. But I have had people come to me who have $750,000, who have over a million dollars, and they're trying to figure out a place it. And the key is, is don't go throw a half million dollars or a million dollars at one deal so that you can be a general partner and buy your way into a joint venture. What you're going to do is just decide how many deals do I want to spread this money across whether it's a million dollars, or $50,000. If it's 20 deals, then how much do you know divide the total by 20, and then figure out you're going to do it evenly. Or you're going to say I'm going to reserve a bigger chunk to go do something bigger. And I'm going to then do smaller chunks in here. So if you have not taken action yet, you are probably just contemplating putting in too much money. And it's going to be a while before you're comfortable with that. Because you're going from zero to $50,000 in one deal, it's probably just not a great idea. Now if you have a million dollars to invest and you still haven't taken action, then you probably need an accountability coach, someone who can walk you through the mindset issues with it because $50,000 across the 20 deals is perfectly reasonable it 20 to 30 deals is all you really need to basically never have to work again.

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Billy Keels  34:31

I like the way you the way you break that down and just you know what is the what is the next logical step that you need to do? And if it's because you think it's too much capital, maybe do less capital. If you're just afraid to actually pick up the phone. Then instead of trying to get up with a nice digital all that kind of stuff. Just get out a piece of paper, a pen, write down what is the next thing pick up the phone call this person, click the Zoom link whatever it is to take the next step so appreciate you breaking that down for us. And you know what we kind of got to get to the go along funnel three The thing is because you're our special guest, I never asked to go along final three. Unless you tell me you're ready. Are you ready?

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35:05

Go for it. I'm ready. I'm ready.

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Billy Keels  35:08

Okay, there you go. That's what I was waiting for now. So here we go. So we started with you where you are today where your feet are today is in the state of Utah. In Salt Lake City, I'd like to bring things back to this side of the pond. Because although I'm from Columbus, Ohio, I've called Europe home for the last 22 years. And so I would love for you to share with us and you already have like your you've got a leg up on most people, because you've already lived over here. So help us understand what is your favourite European city that you have either visited or still on your bucket list to visit.

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35:41

I'm really partial to a small town south of Prague in the Czech Republic, where I used to live I taught at the south bohemian University taught English for a semester and lived with a family there and, and it's just really near and dear to my heart, we went back for our honeymoon, my husband went back again as part of a business trip. And so we just we really have close ties to there. And we will definitely be spending a significant amount of time there in the future.

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Billy Keels  36:05

Awesome. So what's the name of the zone?

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36:07

It's called Tabular. And it's it's about halfway between Prague and the south border.

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Billy Keels  36:12

Okay, awesome. I spent a month in Prague. And that was in the month of January, right. So any month of January, and Prague is usually pretty cold. Very, very cold. It was freezing. But it was fantastic. So cool. So tabular, appreciate you sharing that next thing really has to do with a lot of the experiences that I have had, I consider myself to be pretty fortunate to have met a lot of of people who are very successful, I would put you into that group of people as well, because you're making an impact on lives, and you're doing so many awesome things. And you know, one of the things that I have noticed is that, you know, people that high achievers successful, typically tend to put their mind to something when they put their mind to something, they go out. They get it right that like they put the plan together, they get everything right the first time and it allows them to go so much faster. So many episodes, and I still get it wrong. Am I don't worry. It's just kind of a joke. Like what in the world has happened to this guy? What is going on? This is a microphone issue? No, no, it's just a joke. Because of course, you heard me, really successful people don't get things right, every time the first time. And come on. That's just a joke, you know, that you've been taught us and you gave us a very specific example earlier about your photography, shooting or even investing. Of course, really successful people don't get things right, every single time. Actually, the reality is very successful people that you and I both know, tend to get things wrong, probably 20 to 50 times more frequently than everybody else. Why? Because they're trying new stuff, right? And the reality is, call it a mistake, call it a learning opportunity, call it whatever, I don't want you to think about them. Because I know you've done it, I've done it. I don't want you to think about the mistake or the learning opportunity. But what I do want you to think about is what was the learning that you had as a result of whatever learning opportunity mistake that you're thinking about right now, knowing that somebody today in the going on family really needs to hear that one lesson, what's the one lesson you want to share with us today?

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38:18

The language you choose and the words you use really matter, I'm going to get emotional. You're going to make mistakes, and you're going to call them failures. And you're going to call them mistakes. I hired a coach a couple of months ago, because I was going through a pretty tough grieving process, we've had a lot of death in our family recently. Young, shocking. It's been really hard. And I wasn't really getting a lot done in my business. And I realised that I hadn't really been grieving properly, I've been not taking care of myself and not taking care of my business and just letting myself slide into a depression. And so I basically hired somebody to help snap me out of it. We were coming up on the first year anniversary of one of the worst deaths, and I just called him up and I said I need help. Um, anyway. And so the biggest lesson that he taught me is the words that I was choosing to use, were affecting my mood, affecting my confidence. And, and when we just changed what we were calling things instead of mistakes. We were calling them high quality problems. Because having a business that is a high income potential business is a high quality problem to have. And that business will have problems. And instead of calling them failures, we're calling it feedback. I would I would go into my cave, and basically try to escape from my responsibilities for my children. And he asked me, he said, Why are you calling that a cave? It's a room with some furniture in it. And the more you call it a cave, the more you're going to insist that you're going to hide in there and you're going to behave in a way that that is not conducive to your goals. Language really, really matters. And it sounds really trite, but it's extremely powerful. And when you learn that you can change ain't your mood just by changing your words? It's one of the most powerful ways that you have to control your thoughts or at least influence your own thoughts, and to have a handle on your own emotions rather than letting them rule you. So the word I've always used to describe what I wanted to do is freedom, location, freedom, time, freedom, financial freedom, freedom, freedom, freedom. And I realised through working with him that that freedom word was like shackles, it was like a freedom fighter, like I was putting on Armour, like I had to escape from the evil w two and, and it was a whole persona that I didn't really want to be. And he said, How do you want to be what type of Mother Do you want to be what type of wife do you want to be and I said, I want to be more playful. And immediately that freedom word went out the door, and it was replaced by playful. So now every time I'm having some anxiety, we gave anxiety, like a silly word my kids used to call worry like, vaguely when they were little. So we've just started calling our anxiety, ugliness and, and silly and playful things like that. And in the last couple of months, it's turned my business around, and it's turned my Outlook around, I still have a long way to go, to really recover because we've had some more hits in that time. But I feel now like a playful warrior, instead of a freedom fighter. So the words you use matter. And if you struggle with negative thinking and negative terminology, get some help. There are natural, sorry, Neuro Linguistic Programming experts out there Tony Robbins style who can guide you through this process. And for me, it's been completely worth it.

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Billy Keels  41:25

Phenomenal. So I appreciate you. I appreciate your authenticity, vulnerability, and also sharing with us because words do matter. And I appreciate you sharing that and given us some insight into into you as well. So, Emma, so the last question. Yeah. Talking about what do you mean, if you want to stay forever? Myself, so you're good. You're good. You're good. Listen, what's one book, one book that you'd recommend for the Mormon family?

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41:58

This four hour workweek, I know it sounds trite. But when my husband first read it, he started sending me all these crazy texts about all the fun things, he was going to plan, a fun thing he's gonna do. And I was like, Who is this? Did you steal my husband's phone, and he was always, like, we're doing the work. And we're providing for our family, the same kind of warrior WT warrior. And he finally said, this book has made me realise that I've never really thought about what I wanted, that I could design my own life, I just went along and did what everybody said, I should do grow up, go to college, get a job, have a family support the family, because I've never ever taken a moment to think about what I actually wanted. And that book is what really helped him turn the corner to realising this lifestyle, how important it is to me, and that he needed to do whatever it took to get us to this point. And so we've been really working together on a common goal for the last five years because of him reading that book.

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Billy Keels  42:47

Fantastic. So the four hour workweek, and yes, one of my favourites kind of lifestyle design, right? That's what it's all about. You actually work more than four hours a week, but that's okay. They just need that for the title. So, anyway, so really, yeah, so I appreciate you sharing that with us, but also to just you know, I these conversations every single time and like they fly literally fly by like and I think about, you know, you just from the very beginning talking about, you know, you're kind of conformist off the beaten path. And you share with us the fact that you were looking to find your own path, doing some things differently talked about also to being able to as a as a mother of six, being able to to homeschool your children and being able to have these your six children and you talked about the living abroad experience and how that helped you in his helped to form formulate your, your worldview and also having this desire to continue to live overseas and have the overseas experience again, and recognising you also have these responsibilities. And then one of the things that really, really stands out is when you look about it, when I listen to talk about your husband and life happening for you for a reason. In November when he was no longer in his W two that you decided, hey, listen, you know what this has given us an opportunity to do some things that we haven't done until just now. So really taking life by the by the horns and making the most of the opportunity. And at the same time having this desire to continue to want to help to educate, I want to help to attract other individuals who are looking to also build the best version of their life in the lifestyle that they want to be able to lead. And I'm sure that you know me just like a lot of other people, not probably everybody else is saying this right now. Billy, will you just go ahead and just ask her the question. So I'm just going to ask you the question and all these awesome things that you've done. All this wonderful stuff. Help us understand what is the best way for the going long family to find out more about you and also what you're doing at high rates group so we can get in touch.

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44:48

This business is about the people I like I said I love going into people's houses and photographing and hearing their stories. I really value the connections and the network that this industry gives me and I love that it's such a good Nice to meet new people because you have to be successful this business, but I don't feel like I have to I feel like it's a, it's a privilege. So I would love to talk to anybody out there, you can find me at my website, www dot high rise dot Group H IG hrsc.gr o up. If you go to slash contact, it has all of my social tags on there, you can follow my YouTube by Instagram, you can connect with me on Facebook and LinkedIn, you can send me an email, a text message, I've got a calendar link, you can sign up. So whatever is most convenient for you. It's all there on that page has information on how to jump into our free club meetings, and how to set up some accountability meetings with me as well. And so we'd love to hear from you hear what you're going through help you identify your high quality problems and how you can move forward to the next step on your investing journey.

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Billy Keels  45:42

All right, awesome. So and listen, don't worry, everybody, we're gonna put the link in the show notes. So don't worry if you're on the treadmill. Or if you're cooking dinner or you're doing whatever, don't worry, we'll just click a link and it'll be very easy to get in touch with Emma and her team. So Emma, listen, thank you very much. On behalf of the entire Golang family. I just want to say I really appreciate you deciding to invest your time with me with us. And thank you very, very much.

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46:05

Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity, Billy. All right, cool.

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Billy Keels  46:08

If you give me just like 15 seconds, I just want to wrap things up just saying a couple of words to the go along family. So everyone, listen, what an amazing conversation. Emma from the very beginning kept it real all the way to the very end kept it real and shared wonderful insights with you so that you can take the next step. While you're doing that you're thinking about it, move from theory to action, share today's conversation, share it with your family, share it with your friends, talk about the stuff that Emma was sharing with you today so that you can go from theory to practice, start to get to the best life that you're looking to lead and live. And, you know, while you're doing that, I'm going to be here, prepping the next conversation. So until then go out and make it a great day. And thank you very much trusted you enjoy today's conversation and once again, today's conversation was sponsored by first generation Capital Partners. If you're an accredited investor want to find out more about how we're helping accredited investors to gain their personal freedom even faster. Go to firstgencp.com forward slash going long

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